This is a post that happened on quora.com. The original question was, “Why would evangelicals support a person like Trump?”
To my surprise, a former Southern Baptist preacher spoke up and regurgitated the same kind of rhetoric you would expect to hear from a Liberal, as far as voicing the perspective of an outraged victim being forced to tolerate the ignorance and cruelty of an administration that refuses to buckle beneath the weight of hypocrisy posing as compassion.
What made it even more surprising is that he refused to answer my questions and instead chose to say I wasn’t worth talking to. Hardly the response you would expect from someone who claims to have the Substance of Scripture to back up his convictions.
When you question someone’s relationship with Christ, you want to be able to point to something that represents an inconsistency with the whole of God’s Word, and not something that’s contrary to a verse that’s been taken out of context.
That’s what this Pastor does. If your starting point is a flawed premise, than it becomes easy to dismiss the truth as the result of ignorance and a lack of character.
Most of his content is based on a resolve to believe that “loving your neighbor” means to make it easier for them to break the law. He constantly refers to the biblical mandate to love the “foreigner” and the “stranger,” while simultaneously overlooking the way in which God holds foreigners and strangers accountable to the laws of the land.
This man is not unique, however. There are a lot of people in our society today who welcome the opportunity to be perceived as sophisticated and compassionate without it costing them anything. They don’t talk to the surviving family members of those who’ve been killed or raped by illegal immigrants, and they keep their doors locked while insisting that our country keeps its doors wide open. Their hypocrisy is exceeded only by their indifference.
While asking the right questions is still an effective way of separating fact from fiction, it’s also important to recognize when Scripture is either being quoted out of context, or cited at the expense of other Scriptures that speak to the same issue. You see that same dynamic when Christ was tempted in the wilderness by Satan who was prolific in citing certain verses, but only according to the bits and pieces that suited his purpose.
Here’s the dialogue in its entirety. Watch how he avoids answering certain questions and they way he refrains from applying the whole of God’s Word and instead asserts a singular verse as a bottom line and intentionally omits other verses that need to be applied in order to process all of God’s Directions correctly.
Question: Why do evangelicals support a person like Trump?
Pastor: I’m a lifelong Southern Baptist and former pastor, seminary trained, and the son of a CCC treasurer and Baptist church deacon growing up in north Mississippi. I think I’m pretty qualified to answer this. Evangelical culture has developed over the years into this angry, cynical group, at least when it comes to politics and the media. Perfectly nice people become very rigid and angry whenever it comes to the “culture war.” There is a feeling of victimhood- evangelicals used to rule everything and be the group every politician and entertainer pandered to. A fast shift happened in the 70’s when we became the minority (though not oppressed by any means). That generation is Trump’s base, the ones who watched the shift happen and were so disgusted by it.
Race- The importance can’t be understated. Older white Evangelicals often feel victimized by affirmative action, black focused charities, talk of equity and equality, and love to quote crime stats in the black community. The perception is that tax dollars that they pay is used to make those black lives better only to have the recipients disrespect and destroy what’s given to them. The well publicized riots, filthy rap music, and crime stats in black neighborhoods in practically every US city feeds the prejudice. Trump didn’t say it explicitly, but when he rails against entitlement spending and threatens to send the National Guard in with guns to stop riots, we all know what he means.
Sexual ethics- Not that Republicans particularly do a lot here, but it is certainly Democrats who push for gay rights, abortion access, and before that loosening of decency standards in the entertainment world. Trump played into that disgust with promises to outlaw abortion and comments against the rest.
Capitalism- Americans who grew up during the Cold War associate communism/ socialism with atheist USSR and capitalism with Christian USA. The logic is faulty, but it has persisted. Trump’s acts of deregulation satisfied that bias, as did his promise to abolish the ACA. The latter was a double whammy- it was the signature achievement of his black predecessor and benefited black and poor people more than the white working class (at least as the voters saw it).
Identity politics-For many Evangelicals in the south, Republican = Christian. So even if the candidate doesn’t exhibit Christian morals or even effective leadership, he’s still “our guy.”
Distrust of the educational system- Mostly because evolution was taught, shady preachers were able to bias evangelicals against higher education and those trained by it. This quickly trickled down to the public school system as well, leading to many evangelical families choosing to private school or homeschool their kids so they’d learn from a curriculum friendly to literal interpretation of the Bible. Many evangelicals now won’t believe anything that comes out of academia unless it’s carefully curated to affirm their biases (PraegerU, Fox News, etc). So issues like climate change, CRT, progressive economics, psychology, vaccines, and others are all looked at as a power grab by dirty Democrat politicians. Trump rallied against them all and gained the love of the ignorant.
So to summarize, Trump knew white Evangelical culture very well and said everything they wanted to hear in exactly the way they themselves said it. He truly was their guy, the representation of how they actually think. I’m still an evangelical in matters of Scripture and the fundamental beliefs of Christianity, but I’m strongly opposed to the caustic and ignorant nature that has set in when it comes to society and politics.
Update: Thanks for all the love and the upvotes. It’s nearly at 1000 after 8 months, by far my most popular Quora post. I’ve loved the reactions and conversations in the comments as well.
So, I read his response and my first thought is, “If you’re going to say that you’re a Pastor, why are you not citing Scripture to back up your comments?”
Right behind that would be the way that he’s trying to categorize anyone who supports Trump as being ignorant, hostile, racist, and legalistic. It sounds like a reasonable argument, maybe, until you contemplate the way a person who doesn’t have a valid point will often position themselves as victims of an ignorant and angry mob. That way they don’t have to explain why their ideas don’t work, and why don’t need to take responsibility for their actions.
In other words, he’s making his argument according to a tactic, rather than a topic.
So, here’s what I said…
Bruce (the Pastor’s initial comments are in italics, my response is in plain text):
I’m a lifelong Southern Baptist and former pastor, seminary trained, and the son of a CCC treasurer and Baptist church deacon growing up in north Mississippi. I think I’m pretty qualified to answer this.
Sounds like it. But I’ve reached a place where the moment someone references himself as a pastor, I’m expecting him to reinforce his comments with Scripture, and that doesn’t seem to be the case here. So, while you may have a point, if you’re not going to cite the Bible as the foundation upon which you base your comments, I feel like I’m listening to an opinion more so than a bottom line.
That generation is Trump’s base, the ones who watched the shift happen and were so disgusted by it.
I’m an ordained pastor, born again, and a nine year veteran of the USMC. I voted for Trump, not because I was “disgusted,” but because his policies line up with Scripture more so than any other candidate, certainly more so that Kamala Harris (Gen 1:27 [Transgender]; 2 Thess 3:10 [Socialism]; Lev 20:13; Rom 1:27 [Homosexuality]; Is 45:4, 13 [You don’t have to be a believer to justify my vote]).
Race- The importance can’t be understated. Older white Evangelicals often feel victimized by affirmative action, black focused charities, talk of equity and equality, and love to quote crime stats in the black community.
Your ethnicity is not a factor. Your work ethic, your character, your resume, and your willingness to take responsibility for your actions, on the other hand, is paramount (Prov 21:25; 26:13–14; Matt 25:14–30; 2 Thess 3:10).
Sexual ethics- Not that Republicans particularly do a lot here, but it is certainly Democrats who push for gay rights, abortion access, and before that loosening of decency standards in the entertainment world. Trump played into that disgust with promises to outlaw abortion and comments against the rest.
You don’t justify driving on the wrong side of the road by saying you have the “right” to be happy. In that context, that’s not a “right,” that’s a “demand.” What you’re demanding is that you be allowed to redefine marriage and decide who lives and dies. Homosexuality isn’t healthy, and abortion is murder. No to both! That’s not “disgust,” that’s reason.
Many evangelicals now won’t believe anything that comes out of academia unless it’s carefully curated to affirm their biases (PraegerU, Fox News, etc). So issues like climate change, CRT, progressive economics, psychology, vaccines, and others are all looked at as a power grab by dirty Democrat politicians. Trump rallied against them all and gained the love of the ignorant.
Critical Race Theory, Progressive Economics (Socialism), Psychology (Transgender, Safe Space, etc), Vaccines…are often “taught” as bottom lines. I’m not “biased” by being aware that there’s a very compelling school of thought that challenges the substance of every one of those issues, as far as the way they’re presented in academia. That’s not being judgmental or ignorant, that’s being reasonable. If you’ve got a point, let’s hear it, but don’t try to assert the idea that because you’re uncomfortable, you’re automatically a priority. You have to be able to present proof and not just the voices of the professors who are telling you what you want to hear while simultaneously ignoring common sense, and the general reality of the human experience.
So to summarize, Trump knew white Evangelical culture very well and said everything they wanted to hear in exactly the way they themselves said it. He truly was their guy, the representation of how they actually think. I’m still an evangelical in matters of Scripture and the fundamental beliefs of Christianity, but I’m strongly opposed to the caustic and ignorant nature that has set in when it comes to society and politics.
I voted for President Trump because I wanted our borders to be secure. You’re not a “foreigner” or a “stranger” when you come here illegally. You’re not being “merciful” or “Christlike,” when you refuse to obey the law, let alone enforce it (Rom 13:1–5).
I voted for President Trump because I disagree with a Federal endorsement of abortion, I don’t agree with men competing in women’s sports, I fully support the elimination of Iran’s nuclear capability, their ability to sponsor international terror, and the way in which they can hold the entire world hostage in the context of energy, and then using those profits to further expand their terrorist activity. As far as I’m concerned, the only people who would consider my rationale as “caustic” and “ignorant” are those that don’t like their tables turned over (Matt 21:12).
So, I’m referencing Scripture, I’m providing a logical rebuttal, and explaining what I believe and why.
Here’s what he said…
Pastor: I’m going to suggest getting out of your Fox News echo chamber and learn a little bit about the actual rationale and reasoning behind much of what you’re against lest you lead your congregation into further spiritual darkness and destructive anger.
If you want to hear me quote Scripture, here goes:
- Love your neighbor as yourself. – It is the greatest commandment (along with love God). The story of the Good Samaritan teaches 2 things: 1 – my neighbor is whoever has needs and I can help.
- righteousness isn’t about which group you are in, but rather what you do and why you do it. Every group that Trump spews hate at is my neighbor and yours too.
- He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing. – I don’t see anything about green cards or citizenship papers here. This list is repeated numerous times in Scripture, including in the Prophets as they explained why God destroyed Israel and let them be taken captive. Kindness to others is the single biggest mark of a Godly heart. The current GOP is categorically against all of this, and it’s followers delight in news articles of ICE agents arresting and even shooting immigrants, separating families to put them in cages, cutting SNAP benefits that poor families depend on (many would meet the Biblical definition of widows/orphan), and raising costs so that families can’t afford necessities.
- You seem to have defined certain people as your enemy- Iran, illegal immigrants, probably most black and brown people too- so here’s the last one- But I tell you love your enemies, do good to those who hurt you. – This is easily the most radical of Jesus’ teachings and the most difficult to obey. When you support a politician who denigrates all Mexicans as rapists and murders, calls Haiti a shithole country, and publicly threatens to obliterate Iran, a nation of over 100 million people, you are failing at loving your enemy.
I could say a lot more, and would be willing to have a conversation with you if you’d care to PM your contact info. Your response has a lot of the marks of the warped thinking that is so common in evangelical circles as we have isolated ourselves from the world and bought into a caricature of the Democrat party along with being selective about our moral commitments. Any pastor who continues to support Trump has some major spiritual blindness. I hope you can start working through some of the cultural baggage that has you thinking this way and “be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”
So, rather than attempt to engage me according to the logic that I reinforce with Scripture, he asserts the idea that I’m just watching Fox News.
He doesn’t acknowledge the difference between a neighbor and an intruder. Jesus uses the illustration of how anyone who doesn’t enter the sheep pen using the gate, but instead enters by some other way is a thief and a robber (Jn 10:1). He’s talking about Himself as the door by which a person is able to enter into the Kingdom of God. He’s communicating a spiritual truth using a common sense reality that everyone can understand: People who want help, knock. People who want trouble, break in.
It’s the same problem that was referenced in Part II. Loving your neighbor, at the very least, means that you are working to promote their welfare. You’re not doing that by enabling them to ignore the law, or by categorizing those who disobey those in authority as mere “strangers” (Lev 24:17-32; Rom 13:3-4).
I emphasize the fact that it’s not your ethnicity, it’s your character that matters. I state my support for Trump is based on his policies which line up with biblical Absolutes and common sense perspectives, and he says I need stop leading my congregation into “further darkness and destructive anger.”
Mind you, I’m ordained, but I’m not preaching to a congregation every Sunday. My ordination happened when I was a Youth Pastor. I currently lead a Bible Study for adults, but his indictment is toxic, given the fact that he’s accusing me of being a false prophet.
He goes as far as to say that I’m a racist because I maintain that border security is important and the rule of law is both fair, healthy, and biblical (Rom 13:1-5).
So, I respond…
Bruce (the Pastor’s initial comments are in italics, my response is in plain text):
Love your neighbor as yourself. – It is the greatest commandment (along with love God). The story of the Good Samaritan teaches 2 things: 1 – my neighbor is whoever has needs and I can help. 2 – righteousness isn’t about which group you are in, but rather what you do and why you do it. Every group that Trump spews hate at is my neighbor and yours too.
Imagine you’re the Good Samaritan. But instead of coming on the scene AFTER the thieves have beaten and robbed their victim, you come on the scene AS the thieves are beating and robbing their victim.
Who’s your neighbor in that scenario?
How are you going to stop those thieves and not be accused of “hating” them? And how do you plan on doing it? Given your disdain for ICE, what’s your plan? (Rom 13:1–5)
He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing.
We’re not talking about “foreigners,” though, are we? We’re talking about people who not only broke the law by coming here illegally, but did so with a criminal record. According to Immigration Law, due process is immediate deportation.
Who’s the sinner? The person who broke the law by coming here illegally, or the person who’s enforcing immigration law?
Kindness to others is the single biggest mark of a Godly heart.
No, obedience is the single biggest mark of a Godly heart (Jn 13:34–35).
But I tell you love your enemies, do good to those who hurt you.
Pastor, I would encourage you to read Ecc 7:16–18.
When Jesus overturned the tables of the moneychangers in the Temple, was He “loving” them at that point?
Did David love Goliath?
Did Samuel “love” King Agag?
There’s a difference between loving your enemy and enabling them. Failing to stop them, however that needs to occur, is to be complicit in their wrongdoing. In that moment, what you want to position as piety is actually rebellion.
The same God that commanded us to love our enemy is the same God that commanded Israel to defeat the Canaanites in the Conquest of the Promised Land. He also made a point of leaving some nations in tact in order to ensure those among the Hebrews who had yet to experience combat would have a chance to learn (Jud 3:1–2).
God is not being inconsistent (Num 23:19). When He commanded us to love our enemy, He wasn’t commanding us to be an accomplice. And that’s exactly what you’re doing when you fail to stop them, or discipline them, or arrest them. You mention widows. How about the widows who lost their husbands at the hand of an illegal immigrant who wasn’t supposed to be here to begin with (Victims Of Immigration Crime Engagement (VOICE) | Homeland Security)?
The “foreigner,” as he’s referenced in Scripture, is a person who has chosen to live among the Israelites and abide by their rules. Their race, their gender – all of that is superfluous. It’s their conduct that is to be evaluated. I’ve referenced Rom 13:1–5 more than once and you don’t seem to want to acknowledge that. As a result, you remain content believing that the rule of law is no rule at all. That’s not consistent with common sense, let alone the whole of God’s Word.
By using the illustration of the Good Samaritan, I’m demonstrating that you can’t rightfully categorize everyone as your “neighbor,” given the reality of sin, which often manifests itself in criminal behavior. That’s not being hateful, that’s being discerning (Jn 7:24).
I point out that by failing to make the distinction between someone who is breaking the law and someone who merely needs help is to be complicit in whatever wrongdoing is being accomplished (Lev 19:17; Rom 1:32; Jas 4:17). In other words, you’re watching someone break into your neighbor’s house, yet you insist that the thief is merely a guest.
This Pastor insists that the authority that wields the sword is the enemy, despite what it says in Romans 13:4, that you are to obey those authorities that God has instituted.
I point out that “love” is often manifested in the context of discipline and even lethal force in that, you’re not only promoting the welfare of your enemy by holding them accountable to a standard that prevents them from harming themselves and others, but also in the way you protect those you love by destroying those who constitute lethal threats (Ex 22:2; Rom 13:4; Acts 23:23-24).
And this is what he said…
Pastor: That’s some pretty twisted up thinking there. Not so much the Scriptures but in the assumptions about certain people and in the convenient / abusive way you’ve defined certain terms like “foreigner.”I also see some straight racism in the comment about all illegals immigrants having criminal records which simply isn’t true, yet another of Trump’s lies to justify the abuse of non-white immigrants.
Agreed, the rule of love does not require total pacifism. I never said it did. It does, however, require seeking the good of the one you love. Immigration policy is complicated and well beyond this topic, but our system is broken. No Democrat, not Biden or Harris or any other, wants open borders. Neither do I. But out of love for my neighbor, I don’t support squads of untrained thugs dragging every resident out of an apartment building at night because there are a few illegal immigrants living among the citizens. There is a nuanced position on this that preserves kindness and patience while also protecting society from the abuse of criminals.
So again, I’m going to challenge you to step outside of your Trump loving echo chamber and weigh the words and actions of our leadership against Scripture without stacking the deck for them just because they promise to keep all the people you are scared of away. Godly people do not live in fear.
Now, I’m getting frustrated…
I’m a “racist” because I agree that you shouldn’t attempt to enter this country illegally.
He refuses to make the distinction between immigrants and illegal immigrants.
He refers to ICE Agents as “untrained thugs.” I don’t even bother with that, simply because no one was complaining about a lack of training or abusive tactics when this was happening during the Obama Administration, despite the fact that Tom Holman was in charge back then as he is now. Tactics and techniques haven’t changed. What has changed is the resolve to demonize those who enforcing immigration law.
And again, you’re not loving “loving your neighbor” by enabling them to break the law, or by pretending that the rule of law is nonexistent. That’s not love, that’s neglect.
So, I fire back…
Bruce: At one point the President had pictures of illegals who had criminal records that had been apprehended displayed on the White House lawn. That’s not all illegals, is it? Racism is neither biblical nor anything other than heinous. I’m not being racist, I’m being fair. And as far as untrained thugs…a nuanced position…Why is it that Tom Holman gets the Presidential Rank Award under Barack Obama and then gets demonized once he’s serving under Trump?
As far as ICE Agents storming an apartment “just because there are a few illegal immigrants living among the citizens.” They’re not “a few illegal immigrants,” are they? They’re illegal immigrants with criminal records that were knowingly released by the prior administration that now have to deported (Over 600 Illegal Immigrants with Prior Criminal Convictions Released into the U.S. – Committee on Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs). What is your “nuanced” approach? And how do you think your “nuanced” approach would resonate in the minds of the surviving family members who have been murdered and / or raped by an illegal immigrant?
You want to dismiss me as being Racist. You’ve implied that I have a flawed approach to Scripture, and that the only reason I maintain my perspective is because I’m secretly afraid of people who look different than me.
I asked you a question about the Good Samaritan scenario, and you didn’t answer.
I asked you who was sinning: The person who comes here illegally, or the person enforcing border security? You didn’t answer.
Have you ever travelled outside the country? Do you have any clue as to the kind of justice that you would exacted upon you if you tried to cross the border illegally? Do you not listen to the comments made by Barack Obama who insisted that anyone with a criminal record who comes here illegally needs to be deported? And in the same speech said anyone who crosses the border illegally, with or without a criminal record, will be caught and deported. He deported more illegals than any other President in history. Where was your indignation at that point?
“But out of love for my neighbor, I…”
But they’re not your neighbor, are they? Compassion is easy when it costs you nothing, and being hypocritical is even easier when you’re not responsible.
I’ll leave you with this, Pastor: You’re not making things better. You take verses out of context and use them to support the idea that “loving your enemy” effectively replaces confrontation, criticism, and conviction. You place yourself on the bench, and then criticize those who are still on the field, protecting you and your disregard for Rom 13:1–5.
You may not like President Trump, but he’s delivering on everything he promised to do. As far as a I can tell, you see justice as abuse. You favor the villain over the victim, and you justify your nonsensical perspective on a resolve to believe that loving your enemy equates to enabling them.
The good news is that I’m using your thoughts in a Bible Study tonite and I’ll shoot you the outline…
Did you catch that question I asked that he didn’t answer? “Who was sinning: The person who comes here illegally, or the person enforcing border security?”
We’re building to a succinct collection of bottom lines that we’ll look at in just a minute.
Here’s his last comment…
Wow, the confidence of complete isolation from facts is stunning.If you can’t separate kindness and cruelty from abstract policy, you aren’t worth talking to.
If you can call anything Trump had done this year “success,” you are too misinformed to participate in an adult conversation.
As for not responding to certain things you said, I’ll simply say that some thoughts are worth putting mental energy into, and some simply aren’t.
Recap
Talking to this Pastor, and anyone who thinks like him, can be exasperating. You enumerate facts, you cite the laws that apply, you refer to specific Scriptures and, in their mind, they can dismiss every bit of it simply by saying, “…you aren’t worth talking to.”
What they really mean is that they don’t want to talk to you because of your capacity to reveal their logic as being fundamentally flawed.
Here’s a recap…
- It’s not “hate” to rightfully identify illegal / sinful behavior (Lk 17:3; Rom 13:4-5).
- You’re not being Christlike by ignoring fraud (Prov 6:12-19; 11:1).
- Foreigners and strangers are biblically commanded to obey the law (Lev 24:17-22)
- You are not “loving your neighbor” by encouraging them to ignore those laws that apply to them (Rom 13:3-4).
Conclusion: What Did Jesus Do?
While the latter part of the discussion focused primarily on illegal immigrants, this Pastor was addressing everything from Race to Capitalism to Education, insisting that every criticism coming from a Conservative mindset was uninformed, racist, and inconsistent with the Bible in general.
“What would Jesus do?” is often cited by Liberals and like minded Christians who want to insist that any kind of evaluation is rooted in prejudice and is therefore both irrelevant and immoral.
But the real question is “What did Jesus do?”
Like what was referenced in Part I, He judged, He criticized, He got angry, He called out hypocrisy and sin. That side of Jesus is largely ignored by people who want to pretend that there are no Standards, only situations, and there are no Principles, only preferences.
You love your enemy by promoting their welfare, which is ultimately manifested in the way you direct them to Christ. You don’t do that by enabling their wrongdoing or dismissing their sinful behavior. Grace means nothing without first acknowledging yourself as someone who needs to be forgiven. If there is no standard, then there is no sin. If there is no sin, there’s no need for grace.
What did Jesus do?
He made grace attractive by first making it necessary.
Your enemy is not always approachable. In war, you simply have to stop them. “Love” in that context is gauged more in the context of the life you are protecting rather than the life you are taking. A thief has to be subdued before he can be enlightened.
But an enemy that can be influenced will not see grace as attractive until he first sees it as something necessary. His perception of his iniquity is hindered when you say it doesn’t exist, just like his hope to be forgiven can be discouraged when you insist it isn’t deserved.
Loving your enemy, then, is to acknowledge the reality of his sin in a way that points them to Christ. You don’t enable their sin, you don’t ignore their crime. You address it in a way where God can reveal their sin, and then offer them the grace they now know they need.
What Does it Mean to Love Your Enemy?
